This Link has alot of information I wish we had at the meetings Lizard Lake is mentioned as the 7 th to be worked on. When you read it it says that Lizard Lake will be hard to do because of Politcs. Andy WE MUST KEEP UP THE FIGHT TO SAVE A BEAUTIFUL LAKE FROM BEING DESTROYED
Apparently the only reason the locals want to see the lake dredged is for water skiing, and fishing purposes. I also believe that their may be some greed going on here. This talk is coming from people that have not talked to the original restoration committee, or the family landowners that have owned land on the lake for 100 years.
From the letters, and e-mails that I have seen from the Iowa DNR, and DU, I can assess that DU has no business in helping restore Lizard Lake. What they want is to produce a habitat that is suitable for waterfowl, while residents, and users of the lake want to see the lake remain usable for fishing, canoeing, camping, and hunting. You cannot take a special interest group, let them onto a committee and expect them to want to help the residents situation. If Shallow Lake Management does go through, and Lizard Lake looks like Diamond Lake, or any other lake filled with cattails, who will answer the question of we thought you wanted to help restore fishing, and water quality on our lake? You cannot restore water quality by turning it into a Marsh. How is someone supposed to fish on a lake turned into a marsh if they cannot even get through the cattails to get to the water?
As a person with several summers of recreation on Lizard Lake, family that has grown up on the lake, and having relatives that were on the original restoration committee, I want guarantees that Lizard Lake will not look like Diamond Lake, or be turned into a cattail marsh. Until I get those guarantees, I will continue to fight shallow lake management on Lizard Lake. I want this guarantee to be posted, mailed, and signed by the IDNR. If at the completion of the project Lizard Lake looks like a Marsh instead of a lake, and the lake is not able to be fished because you cannot get to it because of the vegetation, and it no longer looks like a lake from any of the properties surrounding the lake, and the aerial photos do not resemble what they do now, then they will fix the lake, and turn it into what it is supposed to be. I am sure that if the project is determined a success and Lizard Lake is turned into a Marsh, and does not resemble the Lake that everyone knows now, those in charge of the project that are elected officials will not be pleased when they go to the polls to be reelected. When this is all said and done, and if Lizard Lake is turned into a Marsh, you can be sure that I and many others that want to see the lake restored will help other people fighting shallow lake management at their lakes.
By taking a chance with shallow lake management you risk turning a public lake into a marsh. If the lake is turned into a marsh you have to deal with the public when the project fails. I hope that those in charge realize that those that want Lizard Lake restored are the public, and not a special interest group. We have no money to pay in order to get our interests put on the table. By taking a lake and taking these chances you risk turning it into a marsh, you destroy a beautiful lake. Generations of people have grown up on this lake, and the lake has a meaning to all of them. If Lizard Lake is turned into a marsh, all of those generations that have been around the lake lose that special place their families, and friends have known. If this project fails, and the Lake looks like a marsh you will destroy the historical culture, and future generations of recreation on this lake.
What is the fallback plan if Lizard Lake is turned into a marsh, and the goals of this project are not fully met? A person can only fish a lake when they can get to the water. A person can only canoe on a lake when the water is present from shore.
"The living lakes initiative is to establish stepping-stones of perpetually protected and managed shallow lake complexes from Southern Iowa through northern Minnesota to provide quality wetland food and habitat resources for waterfowl. This initiative will help preserve this region's rich waterfowling heritage and support conservation of the primary source of it's birds, the prairie breeding grounds." This is a quote from the ducks unlimited website. What I don't understand about ducks unlimited is if they want to conserve the resources of the wetlands, then why are they going out and shooting the ducks.
I understand that soil erosion, and chemicals have fallen into the lake over the past umpteen years. I understand the need to take action to restore the lake, but I don't understand how you can say you are restoring a lake by turning it into a marsh. I think that you could use shallow lake management on Lizard Lake, I don't think it is smart, responsible, or right for the environment for the managers of this project to leave the lake one foot shallower than what it is. I think this will cause future flooding problems for land owners, not on the lake, but further away from the lake by keeping the water levels lower. I also firmly believe that by leaving the lake one foot shallower, you destroy the lake.
If shallow lake management is used at the lake, raise the water level to it's current state. Your rough fish will be utterly destroyed when you lower the water level, and your silt and crud on the bottom will have a chance to settle. How did they come up with the figure of leaving the lake one foot lower than it's current depth?
Post by Big Dreams on Aug 13, 2009 10:40:22 GMT -6
The lake is property of the state and last I checked it belongs to everyone living in the state. Just because you fish there or grew beside it does not make your opinion more important than any others.
You want to talk about special interest groups that is exactly what these local meetings are. The special interest groups that live around this lake.
These Shallow Lakes are a mess and this is a realistic way to make them more user friendly to all groups.
If you would listen, YOU would understand that Diamond, Rush and Big Wall are actaully marshes and have no potential for quality fish/fishing. However Lizard and South Twin do.........however to get this you have to have the vegetation and clear water.
So in the 1990's when a petion with over 1000 signatures saying we want Lizard Lake dredged is a small family? Or how about this year when over 300 signatures were signed saying we do not want shallow lake managment we went somthing more is this a small family?
If you would listen and look at the pictures, DNR and DU wanted to make Lizard Lake look like Diamond Lake. What happens when you lower a lake by 1 foot after you have done shallow lake managment? You get a lot of reeds and unable to fish because the first winter kills all the fish. If the DNR does not have the money to Dredge the lake or do something besides what they plan they should leave the lake as it is. DON'T DESTROY IT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO HUNT.
Big Dreams, I hope to see you at the meeting. Everyone has a voice that needs to be heard. I hope the rep at the meeting allow us to have a tape played at the meeting in the 1990's that my father recorded. This tape has a message about what people wanted to do in the future of Lizard Lake.
I met alot of people out there this summer some on jet skis, paddle boats, people on the state side, that really enjoyed being at the lake.
I fully understand what shallow lake management is, and the principles behind it. Maybe you can explain to me why we have a shallow lake that they want to make even more shallow. Lizard Lake is already under 5 feet deep. Why do they want to make it even shallower, and turn the lake into a Marsh. I and many others want this lake taken care of, but by leaving the water level one foot lower than where it is now, you turn a lake into a marsh. By doing so you take many activities away from this lake that over 20,000 people in the surronding area can benefit from. Now 20,000 people is a figure from the 1990 estimates that they had for the population that could benefit from the lake.
Yes clear water and vegetation are awesome for this lake, but by maintaining the water level one foot lower than what it is now, you turn the lake into a breeding ground for reeds. It is not feasible to even consider using this lake for fishing in a boat when you could not even get to the lake. No one can swim in cattails, and no one can canoe in cattails. I enjoy the lake as it is, as do many others. We understand what shallow lake management is, we just don't want it to become a project for marsh management.
Post by Andrew W Schachtner on Aug 18, 2009 10:48:29 GMT -6
Big Dreams, May I ask who you are. You have had some great topics. I think that is great you are thinking about planning a fishing trip on Lizard Lake next year. That is great please inform me when you do so I can show you the beauty of the lake.
I do not like the way the Iowa DNR is doing this with the DU. DU are great they help kids to start hunting, and conserve land. Among other things.
Iowa DNR should not have teamed up with DU, it seems that DU have most the say because they have the money.
The people of the surronding area should be heard, and if they agree on shallow lake managment then it should be done. But if they do not then they need to STOP WHAT THEY ARE DOING. And listen to what the people have to say.
I think there are other ways to save Lizard Lake, but not with shallow lake management. I read in the messenger on JULY 18 I think it says most shallow lakes dry up in the summer--IE Marsh.
Not Lizard Lake. One reason Lizard Lake is lower is because the Dam was blown up around the 1950's to stop the flooding of the fields.
Lizard Lake is a glacial lake it should be treated as such.
Most the land around it is farming or state owned. People are not going to sell there property for profits like the DU say.
The property around Lizard Lake has been owned by some people for 100's of years. I am not just talking about my family.
Thank you for you time in reading this. Andrew W. Schachtner email@example.com
Post by Big Dreams on Aug 18, 2009 13:06:00 GMT -6
No, You will know who I am at the meeting because I will not support this Lake being in a turbid carp infested muddy state like the last group you reference from the 1990's.....Its been 20 years let improve this thing. It will never be Spirit or clear lake (by the way they have vegetation along the shoreline
I was joking about the fishing trip the majority of people that spend money on fishing seek game fish....carp and bullheads are not on the list.
There will never be money for dredge these shallow lakes, by the way the glaciers made these shallow. Look at the historical info on there depths in the early 1900's
Last point if you think for a second that those farmer/landowners would not rather sell housing lot for $40,000 for an acre compared to ag value of $6000/acre your dreaming......hence the name big dreams. Talk about ruining an area for special interest groups...you hit the nail on the head. Try to go fishing or for that matter try to so anything safely on North Twin on a weekend in the summer.
Big Dreams you got me thinking. I think you are a member of the United Stated Department of Natural Resources. I might be right I might be wrong.
I hope at this meeting they will tell the facts about lowering a lake by a foot at its deepest point after it has been drained and refilled. My guess ist they will say that we will be able to fish for northern and perch.
After the first winter we go back in the spring and find the fish dead. What are they going to say. Oh sorry Shallow Lake Management is only and experiment we did not know that all the fish would die we have no money to fix it.
If you can not fix a lake by dredging it don't ruin it by letting cattail and reeds grow half way to the middle of the lake.
It has been almost 60 years since they pulled the dredger away from Lizard Lake. I and alot of other people would rather them pull away from Lizard Lake again rather then doing shallow lake management.
At least if they leave the lake alone we can still take a boat out, Ski, jet ski, FISH, and still be able to hunt.
You do shallow Lake management there is only one thing you can do on the STATE LAKE and that is hunt.
Again I ask the DNR not to take the money from DU, and dredge Lizard Lake. If you can't dredge Lizard Lake here is another solution.
What if we put a fish barrier in in the fall, Inject chemicals in the lake in the winter for a fish kill, and restock the fish in the spring. This should work.
Every one has a voice It is not to late to save the lake from being destroyed. NO TO DU AND DNR ON SHALLOW LAKE MANGAMENT. Thank you Andy
If people understood what was going on twenty years ago, they would know that several lakes had been funded to be dredged, and were done so. Twenty years ago, the DNR was invited to several meetings, and given several plans that would have helped fund, and restore Lizard Lake. The only interest that the DNR had in Lizard Lake then, was calling it a Marsh. They had a hard time even considering attending any meetings or fundraisers. The only person we could get to help us was one guy named Jack Fisher. It's funny how things have changed now. The DNR pays to have a study done, and the truth comes out in the report Lizard Lake is not a MARSH, it is a Shallow Glacial Lake. So what happens now, the DNR partners up with the Ducks Unlimited, and tries to turn the Lake into a Marsh.
I wish I was able to attend this meeting, but I am unable to. I have a voice that will be heard though. The DNR failed to listen to us 20 years ago, and now they are having a hard time listening to us again.
By the way the only reason that the dredging equipment was pulled from Lizard Lake, is because the equipment was broken when it got to the Lake. By the time the equipment was fixed the funding for the project had dried up. The equipment actually sat at the Lake for awhile, and by the time the money came back the state said that they could not dredge the lake because they did not have any public access areas to get to the lake. That's funny, because the Landowners that allowed them to bring the dredging equipment to the lake also allowed them to use the land to dredge the lake when needed.
Someone made a comment about selling land, and the price of the acreage, and how hard it was to fish on overly developed lakes on the weekends. That is funny to me, because if you were around twenty years ago that was not the basis of restoring Lizard lake. Because it is one of the least developed lakes in that part of Iowa, it would allow families to comeback to nature with their family. It would allow them to enjoy the lake without the big hotels, cabins, and restaurants. Now if you turn Lizard Lake into a marsh by lowering the water level, I can see how some of the land would be sold because of the eyesore that has been developed out of a beautiful lake. I can also see shanties sprouting up around this lake with paths going through the reeds to the water for hunting.
We understand that hunting is a major sport, we understand that fishing is a major sport, we understand something needs to be done to make this lake better. Lizard Lake is already a natural habitat for ducks, geese, eagles, herons, fish, turtles, and muskrat. This lake has been preserved from development, and will continue to be taken care of as it has. We are only asking that you do right by this lake, and don't drain the water level to 3.8 feet, and maintain that level. We understand that Lizard lake is a SHALLOW LAKE. If you want to use shallow lake management on Lizard Lake, fine, just bring the water level back up to it's current state, and it will remain a lake. Don't turn it into a marsh management plan. DU and the DNR want to preserve the lake for it's wildlife. We agree, but we also want to be able to enjoy what we are doing now, with the water sports as well.
Lizard Lake is pretty much in the middle of nowhere, that is what makes this lake special to everyone. Nobody that I have talked to wants to turn this lake into high development, and an overly populated people lake. Over 20,000 people can use this lake for the recreation purposes it has now, without development. Sure that is a lot of people, but without cabins, or hotels and restaurants you don't see all of these people all of the time. So don't kill a lake and rebirth a lake under false assumptions, and review your facts about the landowners before you make these assumptions.
It was also mentioned that the lake is in a turbid, carp infested situation. Odd, nobody seems not to agree with this. It sounds to me as if everybody wants to solve this problem, yet nobody can agree on the proper ways to do it. Why would anyone want to not improve this lake is beyond any common sense. Everyone I talk to wants this lake improved, either through dredging, partial dredging, or shallow lake management. If the DNR would listen to what people are saying, they would understand this. Why is it that the DNR thinks it is so important to keep the lake one foot lower than it's average depth now. It is a shallow lake, and can be managed with shallow lake management by keeping the same depth. If the DNR would listen to what a lot of people are saying, they are saying fix this lake, just don't turn it into a Marsh. By the way by keeping the lake at it's current level after draining you would still be under the shallow lake management concept.
I am wondering what would happen if a group raised $60,000 and told them to use that money to restore Lizard Lake. We understand that it cannot be dredged, but we will give you this money if you keep the lake at it's current depth after killing the carp, and reestablishing some bottom vegetation.
If it takes money to prevent this lake from becoming a marsh, and kept at it's current depth, how much will it take? Money was raised before for this lake, and it can be raised again. Let's not just take one group and go with what they want, let's see if the public would be willing to put money into this to make it a full use recreational Lake, and not a Marsh. I am willing to help develop fundraisers, and raffles again as I did in the 90's. It is unfortunate that the DNR does not take an active roll in this site, because we are giving them the chance to save a lake, and preserve it for what it is, not turn it into a Marsh that nobody uses for recreation except to hunt.
At a meeting with the DNR in June of 2008 at Pocahontas County Conservation office, Mark Gulick of the Iowa DNR told us that Lizard Lake would be kept 1 ft. lower than the ordinary high water mark if “Shallow Lake Management” was initiated. After visiting Diamond Lake last month, I emailed Mr. Gulick about the water level in that lake. His reply: “Our plan is to fill Diamond to full pool (approximately 1’ below the OHW) by this fall if we get enough rain.” You are correct. They did not say anything at the meeting in Rockwell City about keeping South Twin 1 ft. lower. It’s not something that they like to tell you at the public meetings. It’s “controversial “. As far as,” there will never be enough money to dredge the lake that is in the middle of nowhere”. You’re probably right. Pocahontas county is one of the poorest counties in Iowa. We don’t have enough money or influence at the state capitol to warrant any help. Actually, fishing is pretty good at Lizard Lake. I catch a lot of “crap” every time I go to the lake without telling my wife. We have a lot of fun catching bullheads, perch and catfish. My kids catch a fish almost every time they cast out their line. I don’t think it’s right to sacrifice my kids enjoyment of the lake so I can wade out through 1000 ft. of cattails to open water to fish for a few small northerns that will freeze out every other year and have to be restocked again and again. At the outset “Shallow Lakes Management” sounded like a good idea until I started to do a little research. I tried to find pictures of some of these wonderful projects that they talked about so much. I finally found a picture of shallow lake management in Minnesota. I never did find out the name of the lake. Here is the picture:
If “Shallow Lakes Management” is so wonderful, where are the before and after photos? Where’s the proof? At the meeting in Pocahontas we were shown photos of water coming out of a pipe that flowed out of Lake Maria in Minnesota. No pictures of the lake. Just water coming out of a pipe. That was supposed to convince us I guess. I took a trip to Diamond Lake last month and took a look for myself at this plan. It sucks. The fact is, Shallow lake management will turn Lizard Lake into a marsh/wetland if this project proceeds as planned.
Post by Northern Pike on Aug 20, 2009 6:45:50 GMT -6
Isn't Lizard Lake actually 12" or more higher than it originally was before the structure was put in to raise the level to float the large party barge that was related to the old hall where the parties were. So I would assume that the lake would actually be restored to its original level, right? Wouldn't 1000 feet be pretty much to the otherside? If a shallow lake mgt project has never been seen completed how can you make statements about them. Alot of misinformation being spread around.
According to my records, the dam was built somewhere around 1923. The newly constructed dam was inspected April 28, 1923 by L.L. Clement of the state highway commission in company with Dr. Pammell from the state board of conservation. In their report, Mr. Clement states that " The effect of the presence of the dam will be to hold the water in the lake bed to an elevation of nine inches or less higher than was the lake prior to the construction of the dam" However, some years later a large chunk of the dam was blown away with dynamite thus lowering the dam back down close to the level of the original outlet. The 1923 report also mentions that the dam is "slightly below the present mean high water level of the lake." So, from what I can tell, the dam is not keeping the lake any higher than its original elevation. However, installing a new control structure that incorporates a 18" pvc pipe extending 1000 ft. or more out into the lake would create an unnatural drainage of the lake like what they did at Diamond Lake. They actually buried 4000 ft. of pipe in the lake bottom with 500 ft. being perforated and enclosed in a rock filter. See the link below: www.ducks.org/Conservation/GPROEngineering/4166/GPROEngineeringCompletedProjects.html#diamond
For your information, the lake is approximately 1/2 mile wide which according to my calculations is 2640 ft. 1000 ft out into the lake would put you about 320 ft. shy of the center of the lake. That's a lot of cattails. A shallow lake mgt. project has never been completed? I guess they are still experimental projects then? Why don't we wait until one is completed before we start another? At the South Twin meeting with the DNR, they stated that there have been mistakes made in the past with shallow lakes projects in Minnesota. Why don't we let them continue their experiment in Minnesota? They have 10,000 lakes to play with. We don't have that many in Iowa. Lizard Lake may be turbid and full of carp but at least we can still enjoy the lake as a lake instead of standing on the old shoreline looking at almost 1/4 mile of cattails wondering where the lake went. The only misinformation being spread around is that "shallow lake management" will restore the lake. It won't.