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Post by Dean on Jul 9, 2009 23:29:23 GMT -6
A fish barrier is definitely needed at the lake to keep carp, buffalo and bullheads from getting back into the lake.I really think that just removing those 3 species out of the lake would dramatically improve the water quality. I would also like to see a fish kill done without draining the lake. It does take more chemical but it can be done. A lot of people including myself are worried that after draining the lake the DNR will not bring the water level back up to where it is today. At one meeting I went to it was mentioned that the lake would be kept at least 1 foot lower from the high water mark. That means 1 foot lower vertically not horizontally out from shore. So depending on where the DNR determines the high water mark to be, the lake could be lowered even more than 1 foot. The mean depth for the lake now is only 4.8 ft. Lowering the water level anymore would turn the lake into a wetland. Once the water is cleared up by removing the rough fish, the cattails will grow out to a depth of 3 ft. which would bring them out to the center of the lake if the water is lowered anymore. No more boating on the lake and any gamefish stocked would probably freeze out the following winter. The lake needs to be dredged!!!! I've seen pictures of what they did to Rush Lake in Palo Alto county. It's all cattails now with just a narrow channel of shallow water running down the middle. It's not even good for duck hunting. My mother's family used to fish that lake back in the 1930's and my father and brother caught Northern Pike there in the 50's. The lake was drained and never refilled.
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Post by WHAT IS A LIZARD on Jul 10, 2009 23:22:50 GMT -6
I don't go out to the lake that often. But I agree with Dean, all the beauty of the lake will be taken away by draining it. Does any one care about that besides a limited amount of people. I also heard that Ducks Unlimited want shallow lake mangement on Lizard Lake. Google it you will find it. There program is called living lakes. I looked at a website, they showed a sample of shallow lake management. Nothing but cattails on the shore. Yes there are fish, but how can you enjoy a lake full of cattails. It also had a lot of ducks. Go figure.
In one of the studies, Lizard lake is one of the top 50 lakes to be done in 10 years. 50 Lakes in 10 years no wonder why Lizard Lake is getting the least amount of money, and the least amout of care. I could see 25 lakes in 10 years. What is the big rush. Can we wait with Lizard Lake til more money comes along and the people are heard.
Also I read that farmers will get 200 an acre for crp is that every month or once a year.
Thank you. WHAT IS A LIZARD
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Post by wschac1 on Jul 13, 2009 19:13:23 GMT -6
I am happy with the attention that the lake is currently getting, because we have waited so long for even the words of restoration to be said. My problem is that Shallow Lake Management is still a new idea, and using it on Lizard Lake is not in the best interest of the public. I would like to no who took the grant from Ducks Unlimited to help restore the lake, and if any public opinion was considered before the grant was taken. If the official that took the grant had talked with the public before taking the grant, that official would more and likely decided to seek other funding.
In our country everyone has the right to vote, speak, and voice opinions, it's to bad that money can silence that voice and put people on one straight track, and that's where the money wants them to go.
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Post by Sean McCoy on Jul 14, 2009 9:25:48 GMT -6
What DU grant are you talking about Mr. Schachtner?
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Post by wschac1 on Jul 14, 2009 13:44:09 GMT -6
From my understanding Ducks Unlimited is a major funding component to several restoration projects in Iowa. Lizard Lake being one of them. After Ducks Unlimited got involved it appeared that all was mentioned for restoration process was shallow lake management. I personally feel that seeing as the state got some money from Ducks Unlimited, my opinion, and every other opinion about the lake has been sidetracked, sidestepped and crushed because of their plans. It's understandable that they want to help restore lakes in Iowa, but it is not a feasible idea to me that when enough money comes in it ultimately kills any other idea for lake restoration. I am not saying that they are funding Lizard Lake, but I know that when they donated over $1,000,000 to the state conservation fund, that money, can give them leeway in discussions and plans.
Lizard Lake restoration plans had been talked about and dreamed about for the last 15 years plus. Nothing had really been started, or gotten planned and no action had been taken since at least 1995. All of a sudden out of the blue Lizard Lake gets put on the restoration list and ideas have come out to help restore Lizard Lake. It has only been the last three - four years that Lizard Lake has had this attention, but I believe it is because of elitist money that the lake has gotten this attention, and now wish Ducks Unlimited had never gotten involved. I would have sooner let Lizard Lake stay the way it currently is without shallow lake management, and found the money to properly restore the lake to it's former pristine conditions through other sources when the money could be found.
Now I know that someone will come back and post that I have had my chance to voice my opinion at meetings, and believe me I know this. When I have friends and family attend meetings, and all of a sudden no other lake restoration ideas would be discussed, I know that my opinion is no longer viable to the committee. I also know that it will be mentioned that their really is no other money out their to help restore Lizard Lake. Again I understand this, but to have special money come in, and have their money stop any other lake restoration idea discussion I believe is wrong, and think that the community involved should be given it's voice as well.
Even if it is not money that is involved, I think having people on the IDNR and conservation boards that are involved with Ducks Unlimited helps to sway the opinion, and voices of everyone at the meeting. I know that some people in the decision making process for Lizard Lake are part of ducks unlimited, and it may not be so much the money as the direction that they steered Lizard Lakes restoration plans to.
I have nothing against Duck Unlimited, I just have a problem with individuals that want to advance their agenda over other people's agenda because of their involvement with DU.
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Post by seanmccoy on Jul 14, 2009 14:15:26 GMT -6
Iowa State Limnology did a diagnostic feasibility study on the lake with $25,000 coming from Pocahontas county and they gave the public 4 options 1) Do nothing 2)Shallow lakes mgt(maintain current mean depth 4.8') $481,113 3)Moderate depth lake(dredge to average depth 8.2') $7,186,113 4)Open water lake managment(dredge to average depth 10') $10,756,113
Those are millions!
These costs are without treating the watershed
The county of Pocahontas hired ISU to do this. Dr. Downing is a world renowned Limnologist. Above are the options in black and white.
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Post by wschac1 on Jul 14, 2009 17:05:59 GMT -6
Yes, and I understand that their were options given, and it seemed to me that only one option was discussed through the entire process. To me every option may have been brought up, but from day one it has always been shallow lake management. I am done discussing this topic for now, because I know that option 2 has already been decided on. I just wish that more time would have been spent on looking for federal dollars, not just county, and state dollars to assist with this project. If time could have been spent at trying to get federal dollars for the Native American history that it has, I think that Lizard Lake could have been restored for it's Native American history, as well as it's beauty.
I still believe that Shallow Lake management is still a young process, and do not think enough research has come out of it to effectively say that it is the right choice. By me saying enough information has not come out, I would like to see lakes that have thrived after 10 years, 20 years, and 50 years and examples of what they look like. I hope that with the decision that has been made that if anything goes wrong with the restoration process of Lizard Lake that those responisible step for and try to fix the problem rather than spread blame, and totally abandon the project. By going wrong I mean if the lake does not become habitable again, or the lake is not able to have boats, or recreational use again because of this process.
My opinions will always be expressed, and I hope that those who read this that do not think their opinions matter will voice them. They may have made a choice, and I am glad that the lake is getting worked on. I just hope to God that is is the right choice that has been made.
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Post by WHAT IS A LIZARD on Jul 14, 2009 23:11:14 GMT -6
Sean,
Please respond to this. You have responded to all but this one that Dean posted. Thank you.
A fish barrier is definitely needed at the lake to keep carp, buffalo and bullheads from getting back into the lake.I really think that just removing those 3 species out of the lake would dramatically improve the water quality. I would also like to see a fish kill done without draining the lake. It does take more chemical but it can be done. A lot of people including myself are worried that after draining the lake the DNR will not bring the water level back up to where it is today. At one meeting I went to it was mentioned that the lake would be kept at least 1 foot lower from the high water mark. That means 1 foot lower vertically not horizontally out from shore. So depending on where the DNR determines the high water mark to be, the lake could be lowered even more than 1 foot. The mean depth for the lake now is only 4.8 ft. Lowering the water level anymore would turn the lake into a wetland. Once the water is cleared up by removing the rough fish, the cattails will grow out to a depth of 3 ft. which would bring them out to the center of the lake if the water is lowered anymore. No more boating on the lake and any gamefish stocked would probably freeze out the following winter. The lake needs to be dredged!!!! I've seen pictures of what they did to Rush Lake in Palo Alto county. It's all cattails now with just a narrow channel of shallow water running down the middle. It's not even good for duck hunting. My mother's family used to fish that lake back in the 1930's and my father and brother caught Northern Pike there in the 50's. The lake was drained and never refilled.
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Post by Sean on Jul 15, 2009 7:21:05 GMT -6
What if we put a fish barrier in in the fall, Inject chemicals in the lake in the winter for a fish kill, and restock the fish in the spring. This should work. Why drain the lake. Would they even think about filling it back up. How long would that take. I don't think a lake looks pretty with cat tails and reeds all around it. All that does is bring annoying birds like geese and ducks. Have you ever seen a goose dropping that looks nasty. With all the reeds and cat tails, how is a person suppose to fish? Let alone the bugs. Thanks,WhatIsaLizard
-whatisalizard I think that is a great idea but the idea of a drawdown is to reduce the amount of chemical needed by lowering the pool and congregating the undesirable fish. It will be less expensive. The plan is to install a new outlet structure where the old one is now. It would have the ability to draw the water down if there was ever another carp infestation or to regulate the pool level to curb shoreline erosion. To fill it back up would be dependent on if we were having a wet season or a dry season. but it would eventually fill, it has before. Emergent and submergent vegetation are what filters, cleans, and denitrify water in a shallow lake system. Any creek, river, pond, lake, or resevoir in Iowa has birds, mammals, reptiles, amphibians, fish, insects, aquatic bugs, and so on. It is a sign of how healthy that system is by the diversity and amounts of these. If there are more then the system is healthy if there are less then it is unhealthy. I hope this explains the questions you asked. Byt he way the fishing would be better and the access to the lake will be improved. Thank you very much for the questions. Please contact me if you have watershed questions also
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Post by wschac1 on Jul 15, 2009 15:19:29 GMT -6
Sean, could you invite some of the decision makers of the project to the board, it's hard for me to believe that your the only person willing to talk to us about this project. Their are some questions in the general discussion part of the board that I would like to have answered as well.
Thanks
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Post by Big Dreams on Aug 4, 2009 9:43:05 GMT -6
Shallow Lake management is not a NEW process drive around Southern MN and look at all there shallow lakes the ones that are shallow and just like Lizard...those people actaully take them for what they are and have realisitc goals for success............they actually fine/tax people for removing the shoreline vegetation.
If you want to run around in a speed boat go to Storm or Spirit... I would rather catch perch and northern and NOT be annoyed by all the boat traffic
How does it benefit that tax payers of the state to waste 7-10 million on a mud hole. Put that money into areas that have potential to create real lakes like 3 Mile.
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Post by wschac1 on Aug 4, 2009 18:44:47 GMT -6
I am not referring to speed boats, I am referring to any motorized craft on the lake. Most people do not understand that with a mean depth of 4.8 ft, any motorized boat on the lake would continue to stir up the silt, on the bottom. Also with such a low depth, when they drain the lake, their is no guarantee, that 4.8 feet will be the mean depth. When they refill the lake, if the weather does not permit, the lake will never even get close to the mean depth of 4.8 feet. They do not mention this, in their studies. If they restock the lake, and the depth remains at 4.8 feet, or lower it is not mentioned that many of the fish may not survive the winter. If a drought strikes, while they are in the process of refilling the lake, the chances of the lake ever being refilled to it's max height becomes difficult. With the wind at the lake, the same thing is going to occur with the silt being stirred up as well. Yes 4.8 feet is somewhat deep, but if the water level drops like everyone has seen in lack of rain situations, this gives the silt a chance to be stirred up again, and we are back to the same as we are now, except we won't have any fish to fish from the lake, because they cannot live in that type of situation. They say that they want the vegetation to grow when they drain the lake, but they do not mention any of the circumstances above. The only proper way to restore a lake is to dredge it. If this means taking smaller steps in restoring Iowa lakes, then do it. Don't do something because a special interest group sends money at you and says we'll help you, but here's what we would like out of it. The Lizard Lake Restoration Committee has been around for over 15 years. In that 15 years, the state of Iowa, and the DNR did not do anything with the Lizard Lake Committee until special interest groups helped develop a list of lakes to restore, and offered money to get the projects started. I would like to know where these special interest groups were when the original Lizard Lake Restoration Committee held picnics, and meetings at the public side of the lake 10-15 years ago. The whole goal of the restoration committee was to get attention to the lake, and to get it dredged. The DNR and Iowa have taken several huge tasks at one time, and seem to be rushing their plans to get these lakes restored. What they don't seem to look at is the consequences of Shallow Lake Management on the Lake ecosystem if anything goes wrong. By spending less money on a project to do several projects at one time they take a greater risk of permanently damaging every ecosystem they try to repair. I know that several of the people that are on this committee now are in a special interest group, and I know that their money talks louder than any of my words and others that want the lake properly restored.
Don't take such a big bite, and risk choking if you can't chew it all.
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Post by Big Dreams on Aug 10, 2009 8:13:43 GMT -6
What if it stops raining forever....yep your right it would not fill up but on the other hand we will not care because we will all perish.
We get an average of over 30 inches of rain a year in Iowa. It will fill up.....period.
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Post by Andy on Aug 10, 2009 11:26:39 GMT -6
How can you be sure of that with all the cattails and all.
By the way how many people on this committee are members of DU.
People say it does not matter but it does. If you think about it. I am still waiting for Sean Mccoy to email me this answer. I think he is trying to ignore my email. Andy
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Post by wschac1 on Aug 10, 2009 18:42:45 GMT -6
So by dropping the water level by one foot, we take a 285 acre lake, and drop it down to 225 acres of lake, and add 60 acres of cattails and weeds. This, is interesting, because that means the boat launch, will either have to be extended to get to the lake, or it will never be used again. This also means that their is an additional 60 acres of new land that forms a buffer around the lake from the farmers, and their land. So why would any of the farmers have to worry about putting so much of their land into a conservation area? By lowering the water level they create 60 new acres of land for this buffer area, and this should allow farmers to reduce the amount of currently existing land that they put into the buffer zone. Now with this creation of land by drying out that portion of the lake and never refilling how will this land effect farmers acreage? Technically your adding more land to each farmers property, will they be taxed on this land as well? If they are responsible for it then they can mow the weeds that grow on their property correct? Land acreage for lakes always differ from year to year based on the depth of the lake, and rain fall, how will the DNR regulate this new land that they create by not refilling the lake to it's full level? I don't think you can take new land that you create next to a farmer's field by draining a lake and tell them they can not mow it, farm it, or graze because then you would be in violation of land laws that have existed for quite a long time. So if I were a farmer, I would be staking out how far out my property goes, and cleaning it up so I can still have some what of a view of the lake. Are you going to fine them for cleaning up this new land? It is not under any conservation because the state does not own it, and it is not under water so it is not considered part of the lake. So any concerns of cattails and weeds anyone has shouldn't be a problem if they are on dry land, because they are caring for their own property.
Sean, I would like an answer to any or all of my posts, I have asked several questions, and you seem to be the know all about this project. If you do not want to answer these questions, or do not know the answer, please give me contact information so that I can start forwarding my questions elsewhere. I will not e-mail you privately, because I want everyone to know the answers so if these questions come up again you do not have to re-answer them.
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